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Une ancienne version était disponible sur Hakkar jusqu'à Wotlk, puis elle a été remplacée à la disparition de Zul Gurub avec l'extension Cataclysm.
Zin'rokh, le Destructeur de mondes
est l'un des trois objets rares et épiques découverts en entreprenant des
fouilles Archéologiques Trolles
. Particulièrement rare, il vous faudra vous armer de patience pour mettre la main sur cette superbe pièce. Deux autres objets peuvent être obtenus dans cette civilisation :
Tambour de guerre hanté
Tous les objets rares peuvent être obtenus aléatoirement dans votre recherche archéologique en finissant un autre objet de la même civilisation.
Items obtained through archaeology will be BoA.
I absolutely love that blizz brought this bad boy back.
One of the rare tier items in Troll Archaeology.
Requires 150 Troll Archaeology Fragments.
Common tier Troll items:
Zandalari Voodoo Doll
Fetish of Hir'eek
Eerie Hakkari Idol
Lizard Foot Charm
Jade Asp with Ruby Eyes
Feathered Gold Earring
Bracelet of Jade and Coins
Drakkari Sacrificial Knife
Tooth with Gold Filling
Fine Bloodscalp Dinnerware
Rare tier Troll items:
Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds
Tambour de guerre hanté
Zin'rokh can be obtained as soon as you hit 450 skill in Archaeology and complete troll artifacts. If you are lucky, you get assigned Zin'rokh as your next "solve".
If you fill the three "sockets" of this solve with
, you can reduce the total amount of troll fragments needed from 150 to 114.
EDIT(clarification for people not knowing how archaeology works):
You fly around the world, digging up fragments for different races. You have a different "task" for each race, that can be "solved" as soon as you have collected the correct amount of fragments for that race. When you solve a task(aka artifact), you get 5 skillpoints plus that artifact in your inventory (mostly grey vendor trash) and get assigned a new task/artifact, depending on your current skill in archaeology.
For Zin'rokh, you have to have 450+ skill to have a chance of receiving it as your next task. But most likely you will have to solve a lot of grey crap before you are lucky to get it. There are a lot of people in beta with 525 in archaeology and a lot of solved troll artifacts, but still no Zin'rokh yet, whereas i got it on my first or second troll solve past skill 450. It's just dumb luck.
Whats gonna happen if we still have the original? will it get changed or removed?
No.. Everytime you "solve" an artifact, you get an item. Most likely a common item that sells like 1gold to vendor. Then you will get a new "solve", and if you're lucky, it will be a rare artifact, as
said. Maybe a
artifact, and you may get
. Its not a quest or a daily. If you're lucky enough, you can get this rare artifact Solve 5 times a day.
I doubt they'll nerf the weapon damage... as Zin'rokh and Reclaimed Ashkandi have the same stats and are of a higher swing speed than the other 2-handers gained in raids. They'd have to lower the swing speed to justify a nerf. Weapon damage never has to be in line with other 2-handers of the same item level as long as weapon dps stays the same.
As for the extra strength, they may shave off 33 in order to bring it up to 359 levels... In the end, the decision between Zin'Rokh and Ashkandi will be purely aesthetic until you do heroic modes.
While it would be nice to give the model a slight update, more than anything I wish they would flip the sword back around. Originally Zin'rokh's point was curved downward. See its spiritual successor
for an example of this. For that matter, see some of the earlier screenshots of the
. At some point after Wrath released, for no stated reason, the model was flipped around so the tip pointed up.
Just curious... if you send it to your DK and runeforge it, will it be impossible to send it to another toon?
I got a paladin, a warrior and a DK and they all will have some use for it when hitting 85... just wondering how enchants
affect the BoA?
Best to put a normal enchant on it and only use on paladin and warrior?
edit: lol at muppets downrating for no reason now, the new WoWHead-achievements are doing great things to this site...
So, who else is in the "I'm gona level Archeology pretty much for this babe alone" -club? *raises hand*
I know how archeology works and i know you need to be above 450 skill BUT... Do you need to be level 85 before you actually acquire this as one of your projects?
So far i have done NOTHING but archeology since the release and i am currently level 84 just from the XP i am getting from looting artifacts. I have been maxed 525 since i was in 83 and i was over 450 at level 82. As of right now i have ALL of the blue vanity items and both the level 60 and 70 BoA epics and the Skeleton mount as well as the Skeleton and Gnome pets. The only things i have yet to get are any of the level 85 BoA items.
I am actively only working on getting this sword and i just started to think it might not be possible until level 85 and im wasting my time and artifacts. I currently have found ever single common Troll artifact (there are 14 different commons) multiple times for a total of 38.I just did the math i have i have used 1248 troll artifacts. That number would be if i did not use any Troll Tablets, which i did, but i really dont know exactly how many but id fairly accurately guess that i used somewhere around 25. So i actually looted somewhere around 950 Troll artifacts. SO... That means i have cleared about 105 troll dig sites.
So those are my current numbers and i have yet to get the sword project to pop for me. I know its all random and i may be so unlucky that i NEVER see it (god forbid) but its starting to get to the point that im thinking it could be that i just need to hit 85 first and im wasting my artifacts right now. Especially considering since i have gotten every other rare item that does not require level 85. If anyone can actually confirm or let me know if they got it before 85 that would be awesome. Just to be safe im just going to level to 85 before i keep trying
Basically im trying to see if anyone can confirm they have gotten this BEFORE they were level 85 or if someone can give definative proof that it is not possible till 85. Im starting to think i wasted a LOT of troll artifacts....
Ok i have seen multiple armor activity pages that shows they acquired this before they got to 525 and/or level 85 so i guess 450 probably is legit but no idea what other requirements. Either way its still a
low random chance and really not worth hoping you are just that lucky. Youll most likely end up like me and find out the hard way that you are NOT. Im currently giving up at just over 210 projects and more hours then i can count and instead getting the T1 PvP weapon that will only take me 2-3 weeks and about 3 hours of actual game play to get. GL to all you stubborn hopefuls
/waves goodbye to the last 10 days of his life
i feel your pain man i dropped 900 troll relics the second i tagged 450 was 84 and no luck tryen to save up again on the grind to 85 but i seem to only gett dwarf now that the twilight highlands are open
I'm sitting at ~100 finished troll projects... It is simply that rare, my best guess is a 1% drop chance.
Well, best non-hardmode weapon ingame, so it's time well spend (that and I actually having fun grinding archaeology)
You tried getting it? It's
time consuming and luck based.
Tip: When completing an artifact ALWAYS use your keystones when possible, any spillover is paid out as normal fragments and are available for the next solve right away, whereas you have to wait until the next socketed artifact before you can use your keystones again.
On 76th troll artifact created/solved after hitting 525. Everytime I solve a troll artifacts, and the next solve isn't Zin'rokh, a piece of my sould dies : (
I can confirm that you can get the 85 epics, though not this one in particular. I got both the healer trinket, and the caster ring at 84. Currently working on this one with over 125 greys done. Decided that I'm not going to do anything else until I get this weapon, even if it means Christmas in front of the computer (though I would probably be here anyway).
I leveled archaeology to 450 without using a single troll fragment. By the time I reach 450, I have ~840 fragments and 34 tablets. I started solving troll fragments right away, after 34 attempts I was out of troll fragments and sadly, no Zin'rokh.
I am greatly disappointed and not sure when to do atm. If I give up now, my efforts from the last three days, which 90% of the time were spent on leveling archaeology, would be wasted. If I continue on, I am not sure how long it will take for me to get it, considering few comments here indicating that they have done more than 100 attempts and still no luck.
In order to get 100 attempts, you need~2400 fragments if you have tablets and use them every time when you have the chance. That means ~1560 more fragments for me, and considering that it took me 3 days of full play time to collect 840 fragments, it will take me another ~6 days of full time to gather ~1560 fragments and still there's no guarantee.
I think it would be best if Blizzard can post the chance of getting Zin'rokh, like 1 in 100, or 1 in 200 because that's really what I need right now, to know that if I continue, I will definitely get the sword, not 1 in 1000 chances and never get it. It will greatly boost my desire to collect more fragments, but as of now, that desire is very low, considering how boring archaeology is.
Levelled to 450, saved all troll fragments, hit 525 in minutes from troll solves, no Zin.
2 Days and over 100 solves later and I'm losing the will to live.
What's more the poorly thought out assignment of dig sites is drivingt me up the wall, why should I have to keep visiting Dwarven and Fossil digsites when I have every single item they can offer?
I don't understand why people still don't get the random drops are random. No matter how you go about this its still what seems to be a 1% solve.
I'm currently leveling in just EK not solving anything anymore until I get what I feel is an appropriate amount of troll frags + tablets combined. I have about 600 frags and 28 tablets which combined is about 900. I will be finishing off to 450 when I get about 2500ish. I'll let you know how that goes but it probably wont be until tomorrow or wed depending on how much I can farm.
-Ken (US Illidan)
P.S. - For anyone new to the farm the best way that I can tell to get troll frags is from EK
450. If you hit 450 you will activate the Tol'Vir fragment digsites in VJ and TH. While under 450 the digsites are dwarf, fossil and troll. Everytime you finish a digsite it spawns a new one on the continent. Sometimes you get a lot of troll ones, sometimes you don't. I can average about 75 troll frags an hour so the rest of my grind looks to be a solid 20 hours. Hurray.
Tried in northrend after hitting 375. There are NE, Vykrul, Nerub and Troll sites so when you finish one its only 1/4 of being troll where as EK theres just Troll Fossil and Dwarf. Its a long grind so be prepared.
Why do you need to be 450+ Skill? There seems to be no basis for that assumption, can I see a source?
Anyone got this?someone can confirm that it is on LIVE realms?
Going to do my best to minimize leveling while collecting Troll fragments, currently at 450 and am going to simply farm my ass off with Troll stuff, will report back if I get a large enough sampling to do a mass create while <85 to see if I get the Zin and can thus confirm you don't have to be 85 to get it to pop. Then again, I may break down and make sure I'm 85 just in case. We shall see.
I'm just posting to tell you how I got the sword.
I was level 85, Basically did nothing but Eastern Kingdoms. Used NONE of my troll fragments till i hit 440 and got too lazy to do the last 2 items... At 440 i had about 1200 artifacts and 48 Tablets. I reached 525 and was down to 400 artifacts and slowly started losing hope, till boom, there it was. If you have any questions feel free to reply.
My Armory :
Oh thanks Deltasquad03 i think thats the best way to get the sword
How can people say "You can get it at 450+ already" without even a source that you can?
No point turning them all in until you're 525, then you can be sure that you've done all there is to really have a chance.
So until no one show any proof/source of this being obtainable at 450+, then go for 525.
EDIT: I don't see why ppl downgrade my post. Because there is no single proof about anyone that got the Zin'rokh before 525. No, wowwiki do not count as source as my mom could have written it.
This is a terrible and boring grind, i've spent over 1000 troll fragments trying to get this sword, and heard that people got it right after they got 450 skill in archeology. As cool as this sword may be, if you don't get it after spending over 1000 fragments, i would give up, it's not worth the hours of time you could spend on grinding materials for the BS weapons.
I am at around 100 solves after 450.
I have come up with a plan to make this less painful.
I am now gonna start leveling arch on all of my alts saving all my troll fragments until 450 until I get it. As you probably know arch gives xp and I believe you can get from 80-83 just from 1-525 arch?
This, at least for me, will make grinding all this arch feel a little more rewarding until I find the sword. Not to mention this will eliminate the vash/twilight dig sites as well.
Edit: and hey! maybe get some extra mounts for your alts. SAVE YOUR SOUL! I almost lost mine.
This is a BFS. In a FPS's eyes.
and yet I have to see any proof that the 450 skill is required, where did he get this info, from a gamemaster ?
Hour 37 of Arching after level 450. Troll solve # 83. 1 question for Ghostcrawler... Wtf did I ever do to you?
well thats it for me 3400 troll fragements and no zin rohk sword isnt work another minute of my life
Silly tauren in the screenshot is holding his sword upside down
I'm 525 and only completed about 15 common troll artifacts after 450 because I was dumb and didn't save my troll fragments for 450. I keep getting too many Dwarf, Fossil, and Night Elf dig sites in Eastern Kingdoms presently.
I'm thinking blizzard might need to change something. We shouldn't be forced to do those 3 while Outlands only has two. Even if they keep 4 together, I still go through too many of those sites just to get to a troll. Before 450 I was getting a lot of Troll.
*twitch* Used all my troll fragments (had well over a 1,000 and I know it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things) at like 469, maxed it and then some... Got nothing.
Now while still going crazy and farming around getting the troll sites back, I finally break down and do the dwarf artifact that I've had since I've been building up since and after two common artifacts that required two keystones I get
Staff of Sorcerer - Thane Thaurissan
.... *twitches* I only had a bit over 100 fragments at this point btw so it wasn't like I did a large amount in a row.
I guess my druid has a nice weapon when I get him to 85. >_>
Thinking we all would be best off to wait until 525.... And I might be crazy but artifacts with two keystone slots might mean a higher chance for a rare on the next one... But seeing as none of the troll ones have this, I don't know...
Had some Night Elf ones too that I decided to use and that's resulted in artifact with two keystones... Bet I'll get another rare. <_<
EDIT AGAIN: I was right, just finished Unbra Cresent and the next artifact was the
Kaldorei Wind Chimes
. I think Blizz is trolling us with Trolls not having any two keystone slot Common items.
I'm up to 2612 troll fragments used equal to roughly 85 solves or so. While farming for this from the very beginning (I lvled from 81-85 farming fragments) i've only gotten 2 pets, 4 random bull%^&* items, the
Amulette de feu follet
Still trying to get this bad boy for my paladin, and congratulations too thoose who got it already :)
Can someone confirm that you only need 450 to get this item? And if that is the case, wouldn't it be easier to stay at 450/450 since you don't need to go to vashj'ir or twilight highlands to digg?
Please confirm. Im about to get to 450 and I really want to know if I should stay at 450 or go to 525. I only want this item so it would help alot.
Still going strong here, over 200 troll solves thus far and no Zin, be warned. (that's approximately 7000 fragments working on 35 per solve (sometimes less, sometimes more).
I'm at 525 skill, saved all my troll solves for 450+.
If you have my kind of luck you may be at this a very long time.
I just want to know if it's discoverable before level 85. I'm leveling my 2nd archeologist because my 1st is maxed with no luck on the sword, and troll dig sites are rare now that I am stuck going to Vash and highlands. My mage is 82, with 1k frags and 28 tablets. But I don't want to solve things unless I know I'll have a shot at it not being 85.
Well today was my big day. Farmed ~2800 frags before using my dwarf and fossil to hit 525. Did 84 solves at 525 and got nothing. Fun. :/
Isn't it possible to just stay at artisan or master? I currently have 270/300 in skill and after reading that there will be less troll zones if I skill up higher, why not just save ALL fragments?
When I have alot of fragments, buy new ranks and level up before I spend my troll fragments.
Or is there a downside to this tactic that I haven't thought of?
I can confirm you can get this as early as lvl 75.
Used 2104 troll fragments+52 troll tablets to solve after 525,NO Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Worlds.Fun times -.-
Flipping the sword edge was bad idea. Very bad idea. It looks ugly and wrong. And knowing blizzard, I wouldn't bet on the sword returning to it's original look.
After 2 days at 450+, and having spent over 1500 trol fragments, I've still not got it yet. I'm starting to lose the will to live now, since Cata zones on EK screw over your troll sites.
If anyone knows if its better to farm on Northrend than EK for roll fragments please say so :D
Wonder how many swords I could make out of all these teeth...
As for the person who wanted me to link achievments for the 200 troll solves? what exactly is the point of that?
There isn't any achievements for how many you solve, the 100 common solves (Diggerest) is also referring to different solves since I have never done archeology outside of Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms I'm stuck at 73/100.
Short of having to screenshot each mouseover tooltip for each of the 14 common troll artifacts in the game there really is no way of me proving how many solves I've done, suffice to say I hit 85 in around three days and have spent almost every hour not spent sleeping, bathing or excercising doing archeology for Zin'Rokh, I'm just that stubborn.
So, believe me or don't belive me, I'm going to keep going until I get it then, maybe I will do a you tube video showing the total troll solves just for the hell of it.
Fun Fact : Troll Dinnerware is my most common solve, I set a table to feed an army at present.
Have also done more Dwarven solves than troll at this point, seen no staff either, so casters have it pretty bad as well.
I spent the last few days farming for this and just when I was about to give up hope, got this as my next solve. Looks like I got very lucky. Since the profession is extremely time consuming I didn't save any fragments while leveling, and it took me about 20-30 troll solves after I hit 450 to get the sword as my next solve. Now that you can get 3 to 6 fragments per dig, it should make getting the sword easier although I dont know the exact % of the drop rate.
Should be renamed "Zin"rokh, Destroyer of time" :/
After a week of constant 12+ hour a day farming of Archaeology, it finally popped up in my book after a troll solve in Tanaris. Used Death Gate to port to Eastern Kingdoms to farm fragments and when I got there it had disappeared from my book... replaced with a common. Now I get to wonder if the game will think I've already solved it, thus never finding it again.
660 Troll Fragments and 19 Tablets... No Zin'Rokh... /cry
How do you check troll solves? ive checked achieves but cant find anything?
There is no way of keeping track. People that tell you how many they've solved are either pulling those numbers out of their butt or actually kept track themselves.
I don't know how many solves I've done, but I have nearly every achievement. Missing only 3 more rares for the final achievement. I have well over 3,000 fossil fragments saved up because there is simply no reason to do those solves. I have been digging about 12-16 hours per day for over a week. At this point I would probably keel over from a heart attack if I knew the actual number of solves I've completed.
Here is some hopefully helpful information and thoughts for anyone considering trying to start this right now.
Actually, this is more of a cautionary warning...
This is by far the worst grind and most painful and frustrating thing i have ever done. With other grinds, even as mindless and tedious as they might be you at least know when you will be done and how many kills or items you still need to collect and can at some point see the light at the end of the tunnel. But not with this. Yes it may not be hard to do and you have no competition... but there is no guarantee you will
get it! At a certian point you start to almost hold your breath and then cringe every time you solve a troll project and do not see what you were hoping for. And every time you see a dig site pop up in AJ or TH you want to just punch someone from blizzard.
The only reason i was so intent on getting it, and doing it fast, was to get a huge jump on the PvP season. But now that the season has started i find out that you can get an equal weapon in the second to third week of Conquest point collection and it makes me even more furious that i wasted so much time on this. The fact that this weapon is BoA gives it some extra worth and being able to give an alt a boost when you first level them is nice, but if you know anything about wow you can almost guarantee there will be other items released that are better and easier to obtain with-in a few months. With most items that take a lot of time and effort they usually are top of the line and hold up for a while, which is what i though this would be... but there are already numerous other 2hers that are much easier to obtain and are much less of a gamble if you will actually ever get it or not such as the PvP weapons which are just as good and guaranteed.
The fact that Archeology is random with EVERY aspect (dig site spawns, project chance, token drops) makes farming for this pretty much a HUGE gamble of just wasting a LOT of your time.
After wasting the last 10 days of my life i truly think that archeology is very poorly executed and broken as far as reward and enjoyment of your time spent and i hope that it is drastically changed soon. So unless you just LOVE wow lore and stupid vanity items(with way to long of a CD btw) or you really dont care about wasting countless hours in the hopes of being one of the lucky few then dont even bother till they change it.
I know this post might get down rated and purged but unless you really disagree with what i said then please dont down rate this. I hope that you and others at least have a chance to read this and possibly heed my warning. This really can be incredibly demoralizing and infuriating and make you want to just quit wow and ruin all the other amazing things they did with cataclysm... and this probably will be the case for you too. So honestly consider this before you get all pumped up thinking you are going to start Archeology and plan to get this weapon. But if you still are going to go for it then...
because that is all this is, pure chance, but im done getting TROLLED by Blizz!(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##hatman555##DELIM##
I saved troll fragments until I hit 525 and got this in just 3 projects. I think being the only troll rare item really helps the chances.
2600 Troll fragments and over 80 Troll keystones after 450 and nothing. This is literally the most luck-based find in all of WoW. If you managed to find it in under 1500, consider yourself the luckiest person you know, and go buy a lottery ticket.
I didnt save troll fragments and i going mad of this. Now, with 525 digging troll's areas is more tougher with more locations is available in Eastern Kingdoms. Can i reset my skill? Omg...
I'm aiming to do Archaeology purely for this item.
My plan (correct me if my thinking is wrong):
Dont skill Archaeology past 100 purposefully as it unlocks other possible digging sites(increasing the chance of Troll sites).
Save all fragments, especially from Troll.
Solve all except Troll at the same time when a large amount of fragments have been obtained.
Solve all Troll last and hope to RNG the item.
Does anyone see a problem with that method?
Am I correct in assuming that because the sword isn't Unique-Equipped and is Bind to Account, you could have an 85 Warrior dual-weilding 2 of these, provided to were lucky enough to have it 'drop' as a project on 2 characters?
This item is actually harder to farm fragments for past 450, since EK gains 2 digsites in each Vashj'ir and Twilight Highlands.
I guess I got lucky though, 15-20 Troll Projects since I hit 450 and I'm making it now.
Aah, 68 solves and counting! Maybe I put numbers for tomorrow lottery too!
ok so i just found out that items do repeat even though you havent completed all the other possible commons.
I'm up to 88 solves, not going to do any more until I have enough fragments to reach 100, if I don't get it with that I think I'm going to have myself committed. I seem to be getting rares from everything BUT Troll... Makes me wonder if the rare rate is just that much out of whack with other categories..
I wish I could give up but I'm not going to let Blizzard's RNG gods beat me. >_<
I believe that a lot of ppl, try to research about this thing.
only 1 thing I can say that, This is seriously hard , rare and RNG
i capture a vdo when i solve 8XX trolls only artifact since my skill was 470
and result is .......
here my vdo link on youtube
i recommend anyone who are not start doing archaeology yet, go find something else to do. it very time consuming and hopeless sometime.
i recomend for anyone lvling archeology to get 100-450 solving only fossiles. cuz if ur aiming for the 20 rare solves its the best way. maybe solving some nightelf wont hurt becuse u will fly around in kalimdor alot for tol'vir. but if you want the trinket or something else from nightelfs. dont solve them ofc.
trust me. it takes alot longer to lvl like that. maybe 3 tiems longer. but its worth it.
becuse. you really dont wanna survey in eastern kingdom after 450. it sucks balls.
the reason i started to think about this is only becuse of the reason that fossiles only got 2 rares. and u get them early on, and u can only get them once.
so id like to think that ur chance of getting something good is higher when u start solving something else.
I saved 900 dwarf and 1500 troll frags, plus 30-40 charms each, used them at 485 and got 2 blue items from dwarf and jack @#$% for troll. $%^& lady luck in her dirty ass.
Has ANYONE gotten this at 525? I hope it's not a case like the JC trinkets that wouldn't drop once you're 85.
Everyone who has gotten it so far seems to have been between 450 and 525.
I saved all my troll fragments and am now at over 150 artifacts solved at 525 for troll. FML.
Btw, does anyone here know if there is a difference in the troll spawn rate whether or not you constantly farm the troll sites with highest priority? I.e. is it worth travelling all the way down to Stranglethorn if there is a troll site there, even though there are several dwarf etc. just where you are?
Top 10 reasons you'll end up committing suicide before obtaining Zin'Rokh
10. You haven't spoken to your significant other since Level 1 archaeology.
9. Red, Green, Green, Green, Green... WAIT WTF WHAT HAPPENED TO YELLOW?
8. You used to like dwarves but now absolutely hate the dwarven race and anyone who plays it.
7. You leveled past 450 not realizing that you'll now have to dig in Vash'jir.
6. You leveled to 450 including using troll fragments.
5. You are overjoyed when you see anything in STV.
4. You realize that digsite that just popped in STV is the fossil one, you begin to throw things.
3. You leveled to 525 on or before 12/9 and still working at it.
2. One of your friends links Zin'Rokh in guild chat with the words "sweet" or "yay"
1. RNG, RNG, RNG AAAAAAAAAH!
Good luck! I know I'm still working on it.
Why was anyone expecting it to be easy to get the best weapon in the game from a secondary profession that requires you to right click a sparkle? After completing The Insane achievement pre-nerf, farming this weapon is like a vacation.
i got mine today :D. I am 525 skill and have solved about 100 artifacts total. about 20 troll. i didn't use any special farming tactics just kept digging whilst in the 30 min dps dungeon queues and got it that way.
really dont solve any troll or dwarf fragments until u have 2k of each. eastern kingdom is a nightmare after 450
Hello there, one question... you can put a rune in this two handed sword as Death knight with Runeforging?
Becouse this is a Bind on account item :S
edit: ok just saw a guy with it, i was worry about it, nvm and Good Luck!
Just got this after an incredible luck streak with this proff. I found myself with the mount and 5 other rares before hitting 445. At this point i had just over 1000 troll pieces saved up and wasnt sure if i should go for it or save up another 1k aftter reading about people not getting it after 200 + solves. I went ahead anyway and had it come up after only 5 solves leaving me with over 800 troll pieces left and 28 tablets.
All i can say is dont give up, because the damage increase of this weapon compared to the 346 blues is huge not to mention its incredible looks. Im chuffed to get this less than 2 weeks into the expansion will last a looong time.
Did 84 solves at 525 from saving frag. Been going at it the past few days and another 50 solves, still nothing doing. Lame.
I had 4000 fragments and 101 tablets. Used all at 525.
Went through em all. Nothing. Cutting off my right man parts because it's less painful.
Used 1600 dwarf frags + 35 rune stones @ 525 and nothing for that either.
why should I have to keep visiting Dwarven and Fossil digsites when I have every single item they can offer?
from dwarf sites already? Getting that is just as hard as Zin, along with any of the others. Give it to your caster alts, it's gona be difficult to replace that too
Night Elf: 21
No Zin'rokh or Staff yet. I know I should just give up and do something else. But it kills me knowing how much time I have invested with nothing to show for it.
Believe me if I say this is not a 1% chance ... probably a 0,6% or something ..
In a while i will resolve something around 10000 fragments and 250 troll tablet .. if the result will be negative .. i think i'll have something to say and write on Blizzard Forum
Just figured out one important thing.
While digging, make sure to always dig the troll sites with the highest priority. This will "unlock" that site to be spawned again, and that can happen as soon as your next dig site is dug (lol the gramar?).
Just used the tip to save all the Troll fragments untill 450 - then skill on it to 525. Had a total of around 2400 troll saved up, and only got crap from it. Going to continue farming for the sword, since I've been farming for way too long to give up now. I really feel sorry for the rest of you that haven't gotten it yet.
Got it on my druid, now I just need an alt to use it :s haha
As for completing the weapon, the archaeology data for completing it sheds some possibly interesting info :) I just don't feel like spoiling it
can anyone confirm if it is possible to get to skill 450 and just not buy the upgrade to 525. then solve all your troll stuff and get the sword.
i mean if you dont use the higher skills u wont open the rest of the sites and thus can farm away in EK but i`m not sure if it will increase decrease the chance to get this sword.
ive seriusly been farming this thing for 4 days straight Still no succes...
Got it yesterday: 150 troll artifacts. Uploading a screenshot also, had bout 450 skill when it showd up in my archeology.
Ok there is still noone in this thread that can prove that they got it at skill 525. Starting to think that is is bugged in the same way that the jc-trinkets were.
- All of the success stories so far have gotten it between 450-524.
- All the fail stories (you guys who have been solving 2k+ fragments) have been at 525 a long time.
Please, if anyone can confirm that they got it AT 525 I would be very thankful.
EDIT: This was wrong, since Alazuris got it at 525.
Been farming this since Arch came out I have found 12 rares and not this. Starting to lose hope.
Edit: I have established that I'll probably get all the other rares all the achievement grow old and die before I get this.
Still gonna try lolol xP
Soooo, I just turned in my 1700 troll artefacts when I hit 450 skill, as expected nothing. However the master question is now, how do you guys keep farming troll stuff when you are at 525?
EK proves rather %^&*ty imho, with twilight and Vashj'ir in the play
Must have been lucky then. For me it was troll project nr 27 :).
Here is the proof that you can get it after 450 skill.
Lol yep...wow, over 200. I'm currently at 76 and it's driving me insane, been maxed at 525 since the 10'th.
get the mod Archy...so much better grinding
Reading the previous post I realized that I'm lucky: I got the sword after solving around 70-75 troll artifacts. It is a hard work to get it and considering that some people finished over 100 troll artifacts I think it's safe to presume that the drop rate is below 1%.
But: DON"T GIVE UP!....it's worth the hassle.
over 1300 fragments used, 35 keystones and no sword, at level 85 with 525 arch, sigh..^&*! isnt worth it, big waste of time..
I just got this bad boy last night. Had about 850 fragments and 37 tablets. The sword popped up on my second to last solve. I was at 525 skill. I took a SS for proof.
pibbz that screen is interesting. cause the question is can you get it at 450 without advancing arch past 450. But your right at 450 and you did advance. Did you get it, then advance it?
Hello, my name is George and I'm an addict.
I started off leveling Archeology trying to kill time in between raids, since my guild were slackers and couldn't level or gear up as fast as I did. I never read any guides, just picked it up, figured out I should dig up to 100 and then solve, solved everything after 100 just to get skill faster. I was hoping to get the tol'vir bug mount, maybe, nothing else.
I leveled up to 450 in 2 days and went to dig my first Uldum dig site ... got Ring of the Boy Emperor as my first project. My main's a warlock so ... I got hooked. I managed to complete it in 4 hours, with some luck and insane digging in Kalimdor.
So I went online and checked what the other epics are. Obviously the staff and Zin'Rokh caught my eye.
I already had 525 archeology so I found out how screwed I am with EK digsites. I tried digging for 2 days but Vashj'ir finally cracked my sanity.
So now I am leveling my alt (warr) through Archeology only. Digging in EK only, saving up all troll & dwarf, gonna solve only fossil and the few NE.
I know some suggest you should prospect dwarf until 375 so you can unlock the 3-6 fragment drop rate, but that basically screws your chances at the staff. Since I want both the staff and the sword (or at least either, yet I am THAT greedy :p), I'd rather do it with fossil only. Besides the difference between 3-5 and 3-6 is only 1 fragment on average per dig site. (since 3-6 can only drop 3, 4 or 6, but not 5).
Started today and as of now I have ~350 dwarf, ~300 troll and ~300 fossil. Gonna reach 375 with fossil and see how many troll&dwarf I have then.
I got very lucky on my Zin'rokh.
As soon as I hit 450, I started spam-solving troll artifacts. Zin'rokh got rolled after only 6 solves.
Good luck to all those hunting this awesome entry-level raid weapon! Stick with it.
3100 Troll Fragments 80 Tablets used and NOTHING.gg really FUN profession
I have a hunch. Since they started implementing the "transmuting in zone x gets you element y" in alchemy, i figured solving artifacts in certain spots might affect (effect?) what you discover. So i did this in a troll dig site to be safe.
I just got this! I watched Mooglelord's video and caved in and solved 1800 of my 2400 fragments. I was also in a troll survey site as recommended by Mooglelord. After 450 skill, I've solved approximately 3500 fragments to successfully obtain the sword with 600 fragments leftover.
Yes, let this be a warning to anyone considering pursuing this sword. I have been at it for 2 days as well, completed over 50 troll artifacts (all after 450) and am still on the hunt. This takes forever and i'm doubting myself lately and yes, losing my sanity.
PS thankfully while i was typing this deathwing just put me in my place by a mid-air collision with him. rofl. Stood in the flames my ass - the flames stood on ME!
As im sure you all know by now when you have a rare item in your queue the fragments from that race become rarer than usual, my method for maximizing the amount of fragments i get from trolls was simple, bring rares into the queue for all the races besides troll 2/4 sites were always troll for me after i did this. Good Luck! (I got this sword after 4000 fragments and 100 troll tablets, it took 3 full days to farm all of this but considering the speed on this and its current stats even the sword from nefarian wont replace it, in fact this is BiS until heroics IMO for a UH dk)
Does anyone know if you have to be level 85 to get ZR to pop up?
I received this item a few days ago, after quite a few Troll solves. (I didn't count them.)
I can confirm that you can get it after reaching 525 skill, so there is no truth to the "Can't acquire at higher than 450 skill" nonsense.
What i did was that i leveled from 0-450 without using 1 troll fragment or troll tablet- and started solving when i hitted 450.
I got it after 9 solves- ( 495 skill ) had 1700more troll fragments to use and a 51 tablet soo kinda sucked:p
First char, main, solved ~2000 frags past 450, no drop.
Second char, lvld to 83½ from 80 thru arch, ~2000 frags past 450, no luck.
Third char, since im not really a fan of alts, currently leveling thru arch from 70, 73 and counting atm.
will get her to 85 thru arch and solve the frags i have then, currently at ~1k frags, 5-7k at 85 perhaps.
I'd rather grind for the insane again twice then go thru this for no reward.
It will all be worth it when It finally pops tho.
best of luck to everyone else farming for this, lets hope xmas comes early =)
This reminds of my first epic I ever gotten. I was carried through ZG on my old warrior, now I have to redeem myself on my new warrior and get the new one.
Edit: So, This will show something, I'm not going to stop farming it, and it is 9:35 (P.M)... and I'm not stopping until I get it, and I've already done 35 troll archs, so wish me luck :D
I would like to know, was the troll dig site "active" where you were. Just wondering cuz all tips to have beter chances to get this will be used ;)
Edit: To others who got Zin'rokh already: When u got this to ur solve table did you make your last solve at troll digsite or did it happen somewhere else like in Orgrimmar? And if it happened at troll digsite was the digsite active or not?
I finally received this in my project book after a week of spending 5-10 hours a day doing nothing but Archaeology. I power rushed Archaeology to 450 and saved all of my troll fragments; I had 1250 fragments saved up. I used them all, and had no Zin'rokh. So I spent the next few days continuing getting troll fragments. I think I had to clean up Vash'jir for EK about 20+ times, drove me nuts. But this is mainly words of encouragement: how bad do you want it? Keep working hard, and it will eventually show up in your project book.
Here's a picture because everyone loves pictures:
Good luck everyone, and don't give up. It's definitely worth the investment of time.
Waiting for an ancient Warrior hero who played in classic to obtain this and dual wield the 60 and 85 versions.
Ok so I leveled 81-85 almost purely off of archeology, except for the occasional dungeon run for sanity sake. I had roughly 2000 troll fragments. I used them all and no luck, I had to take a break to gear up for raids then the last 8 days i've been at it again and tracking how many fragments i farm each day and using them at the end of each day. I have used just over 6500 fragments at this point in time, I have every dwarf and fossil rare and much to my anger i still get those spawns. Some things I feel like have been happening are: you get less keystones at cap but more fragments (don't know how this effects overall productivity).
Anyways, i have yet to get my zin'rokh. At this point i'm about to slip from sanity and... well we all know the rest. Is anyone aware of factors that affect procing zin'rokh and or something that may make me unable to proc it? (I didn't start using my trolls till 450 and i'm 85.)
" What is the chance that I find a rare artifact?
When starting a new archaeology project the chance of getting a rare project depends on your archaeology level and the number of projects you have completed for that race before.
You cannot complete the same rare artifact more than once. "
I know it might be a BS site and pose no relevance , but this actually sounds right. read some blue post about this saying that all the rare artifacts are there to be discovered. If it was a matter of pure luck, there wouldn't be an achievement for digging up all the 20 rare artifacts, that would be a feat of strength.
From my experience with blizzard designing achievements and feats of strength (and i know what i am saying here, got 10K achievement points on my main), achievements are there to be earned by anyone, while feats of strength are the "harder or almost impossible" to achieve. If i think about the legendary weapon drops, or very rare mount drops, there is a feat of strength for them because them dropping for you is a matter of pure RNG. not to mention that you split you chances of getting the legendary/ mount with everyone else in the party.
Now, some rare artifacts should be harder to find, they are the equivalent of top non-HC raid weapons. it would be silly to just give them away( everyone would be running around with these weapons if all you needed to do is solve 20-40 troll artifacts and got it).
So, adding all these together,i don't think it's a good idea to start up archeology on another character just because you got 525 and you got the cataclysm zones to spawn dig sites. My logic points to the fact that every troll common artifact you solve get's you closer to getting the sword. Sure, some ppl are lucky bastards and get it on their first 25 solves, others get it at 100, others dont get it after 200. But this counting towards an achievement points to the fact that the chances of this sword popping up as a project increase as you complete more artifacts.
Just think about it.. apply the same logic to all the other hunted rares.. the dwarf staff, the tol'vir staff, weapon and mount. if this was pure RNG, getting the professor title would be harder and take longer in time then farming for all the vanilla legendarys put together( one MC run takes about 1 hour :P ) and there are feats of strength for each of those.
Standing at 175 completed troll artifacts (post 450) and still nothing. Sanity? What is that? I think I lost it when I reached 100 completed. I would be inclined to find out what the internal % chance of getting this as the next to solve artifact is, because at this stage, even RNG does not explain why I still have not found this yet.
Total RNG finding this weapon
I'll never admit defeat, I'll get this sword yet.
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering sword; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee
i figured i'll farm ZG before it got removed to get the sword and have it popped automaticly to the lvl 85 version... never been so wrong about it T_T farmed 4000 troll artifacts and burned them after each other never procced guess u need %^&*loads of luck as the 200 times i been there and never gotten then tiger mount dropped, i think trolls hate me :(
I hit the no return point on farming zinrokh 50 solves ago. Its do or die. I cant stop and have wasted 40 hours of farming with nothing to show for it. It could be my NEXT solve! Btw found this on another site.
/run print("Total artifacts"); for x=1,9 do local c=GetNumArtifactsByRace(x); local a =0; for y=1,c do local t = select(9, GetArtifactInfoByRace(x, y)); a=a+t;end local rn = GetArchaeologyRaceInfo(x); if( c > 1 ) then print(rn .. ": " .. a); end end
shows your solves.
Can anyone confirm if keeping a rare item in your queue from a certain race makes those fragments more rare? A user posted that it does earlier, and I'm trying to confirm it myself. Right now, I have a Night Elf and a Dwarf rare in my queue. However, after an hour of farming, it does seem that dwarf and night elf fragments now seem to be much less than before I had the rares in queue. Now I'm getting nothing but troll and fossil fragments.
Solved over 100 trolls after I dinged 525, 2 weeks ago. No luck. :)
Working on my mage at the moment. Not done any quest at all, it's lvl 83 now, through archeaology only. :) Only level my skill with fossils. All way to 525.
Just in case someone haven't posted this script here, I'll do it again.
This script till tell you how many completed of each artifact you have. Just open up you "Completed Artifacts" tab under Archaeology and run this in the chat:
/run print("Total artifacts"); for x=1,9 do local c=GetNumArtifactsByRace(x); local a =0; for y=1,c do local t = select(9, GetArtifactInfoByRace(x, y)); a=a+t;end local rn = GetArchaeologyRaceInfo(x); if( c > 1 ) then print(rn .. ": " .. a); end end
who first showed me this script. Thanks Unko, it works great.
I'm currently on 120 completed Troll Artifacts, I'm not giving up. :)
Good luck everyone.
Got mine today 1900 fragments and 41 tablets used.
Finally I got lucky for once. Had 2100 farmed and thought I'll give it a shot, it's christmas after all. :P
Good luck to all out there, dualwielding it with the old
for the luls.
Edit: Btw I did take the advice and stayed below 450 to maximize the troll farm.
Just a "minor" upgrade to latest version ;) Im glad to be owner of one of these babys.
I just got this bad boy today, few minutes ago, after 5 days of farming. I just started to level archeology, and at about 200, I stopped to use the troll fragments, only leveled in EK, from dwarf and fossil solves. 2 days ago I stopped at 440, because I don't wanted to unlock the cataclysmic digsites, having more chance on trollsite spawns. So I ended up with 40 tablets and 2060 fragments. Back in OG I used all my dwarf and fossil fragments to level up to 525, had about 880 dwarf fragments, and 650 fossil ones, and some Nelf ones also. At 525 I just started to solve the troll fragments, praying to god it will pop up, which happened when I had 1258 fragments and 20 tablets left. So it is obtainable at max skill, seems from 450-525. I didn't solve all of the 14 common artifacts before, so there is no influence from this side also. Best way is to save the fragments, so you can get the RNG better to work imho.... but I don't really have any good or better idea.
Best of luck to all of you,
Walda - Ragnaros EU
I multibox. I farmed my 4 Death Knights to 450 skill without completing a single Troll artifact and then recorded me completing all four character's Troll artifacts.
In total, 211 Troll artifacts solved post-450 skill. Know how many Zin'rok's I got?
^^Video or it didn't happen.
I know this item's a real #$%^& to get, but I'm fairly determined. Got my albino drake, now I'm moving on to this. I'll get it eventually ^-^.
A big thank you to all the people who posted info on requirments to get it, you all rock.
I'm skill 450 now with 1800 fragments and 46 Tablets, but I'm lv 84, do i need to be 85 to have a chance to get it?
No you dont' need it. I already seen an image of a player who has discovered it at 84.
Btw ... 4000 fragments here and 100 tablet. Going for 10.000
Just had the project pop up for me. Things to note:
-Completed a gray with before it, no keystone used
-No other rares in my other race queues atm
-Was stood in an exhausted Troll site in STV
edit - screenie removed
Got it in my last try! Used 1800 fragments.
318 Toll Solves and counting.
After around 7000 fragments and around 250 troll solves on my main I decided to minimize time wasted on this and use my alt so he could at least get xp, so started digging with my level 80 Pally.
Took him from 80-84 in 2-3 days purely off digging in EK, couldnt take it anymore, approximately 3000 troll frags in his pack I decided to go for it.
Solved all the fossil frags to get to 450, then burned through every single troll frag with no luck whatsoever.
Whoever came up with this archeology crap needs their head examining almost as much as I do for wasting so much of my life on it.
It's also worth noting that I still aint seen the dwarven staff either, if it's been possible to grind solo for something in this game I've managed it, I solo farmed the mats required for Thunderfury back in classic WoW, never did get the second half of the bindings to complete it.
This grind finally broke me (or fixed me depending how you look at it).
Right. Like most of you, i want this bad boy something fierce. I ground up arch on my paladin without doing any research, so I both wasted a lot of troll artifacts leveling it prior to 450 and then leveled to 450, causing the cata-pop issue that's so familiar by now.
So i'm putting the pally aside and leveling arch all over again with one of my dwarves (for the bonus fragments courtesy of
). If he doesn't get it, dwarf 2. If not him, dwarf 3. If not him, gonna start race changing my other 80s. I'm getting this thing, no matter what :P
I'm blogging my experiences
, should anyone be interested in my progress...
Just burned through 1500+ artifacts and about 30-40 tablets. Did not proc.
Not worth it, especially considering the weapon will be obsolete with the next big patch assuming it follows the same trends that WotLK did.. think ToC / ICC 5 weapons - made your Naxx/Uld stuff pointless. If it takes you literally hundreds of hours for this, compared to 15-20 a week raiding, I just don't see the appeal.
So... spend a few days maxing out your profession, but anything beyond that is a waste of time.
somebody going for this might want to save up their troll pieces till 450
I JUST got this sword moments ago, got too excited to take a screenshot of it. Now, let me share what I did..
I got to 450 without solving a single troll artifact and had around 1600 fragments and I got nothing. I was disappointed but, that didn't stop me from trying to get this sword. I dug for 2 days and I would save up my troll fragments for the day and before I log off, I'd solve all of them. Still nothing.
So, I figured that since I'm getting Troll dig sites less frequently, I won't solve an artifact WITHOUT a troll tablet and that is what I did for 2 days, and I finally got it today.
139 Troll solves. Don't give up if you really want this! Good Luck everyone.
EDIT: it would be neat if we got a title for the sword ... <name> the Soulflayer. -I didn't say I WANTED it, the sword is more than enough. I just thought it would be cool.
Nearly 5000 troll fragments here.
145 Troll Tablet.
Running to 10.000.
I'll shot all in a row.
I crafted this item yesterday.
Archaeology can be very frustrating and time consuming to pursue. Relying on RNG for a profession is infuriating, and more often than not, there isn't even any troll dig sites available. You have to dig fossils and night elf fragments repeatedly to hopefully spawn a dig site in tanaris or stranglethorn, and even when you are solving troll artifacts, there is no guarantee you will EVER spawn a Zin'rokh.
It reminds me of the protodrake eggs; you can buy hundreds week after week, but your chances aren't any better than they were on the very first egg.
In the time I spent pursuing this sword, I could have leveled 3 more toons to 85. That should give you an idea...
Will it show up at 450 of the GM level or do you need to be 450+ Illustrious Grand Master?
It's interesting that there are more comments on this page than on shadowmourne's page.
Can anyone confirm that Vashj'ir is no longer spawning a dig site?
Before the hotfix that caused triple points for rares, I was getting Vashj'ir once every 30-45 minutes. I've been going for about 8 hours now and I have not gotten it once, but I've gotten Twilight several times.
Anyone seeing something similar?
For those leveling Archaeology:
I suggest leveling it on an alt. At 84 I receive almost 15k experience PER dig... multiply that by 3 digs per site, and you have a respectable experience gain.
Looking for Zin'rokh for the main, gaining experience from the process on my alt.
Remember guys, archaeology is supposed to be time consuming, just as it is in real life. It depends on luck, and patience.
8900 fragments, 275 troll Tablet.
Something like 360 tries.
No Zin'Rokh ... and that's not a lie. This is the last insult.
Hey all crazy farmers,
after 59 troll commons completed on my main (450+) i decided to farm my alt from 80 to 85 with arch.
after another 121 completed troll commons (450+) finally zin'rokh appeared. ofcourse it killed my soul a couple of times to farm it but in the end it will come.
ps. i can confirm you dont need to be in troll digsites nor in zg. I got the rare popup in orgrimmar.
good luck and merry xmas.
I know this will seem like another frustration QQing message, and you'll probably downrate it, but ah well.
This profession is very poorly designed. From a gaming perspective, there's a huge amount of frustration involved with this.
I'm going to use this sword as an example, but it pretty much applies across the board for the profession. The problem is, all of the rewards are RNG based for what is a very time consuming profession. Lots of things in WoW are RNG based, but for most of them, even if you have the worst luck possible, you'll still bring something away from it. Here, you bring NOTHING away from it. A few worthless vendor items. If you're a miner, and you get the minimum possible ore from every rock you see, you're still getting some ore, which is better than nothing. But here, you really are getting nothing - there's just no fun in it.
If that's not enough, further problems arise. There are such a limited number of rewards for many of the races, and once you've completed all the rares of a certain race, you really are deliberately just digging up trash without any purpose. Why would Blizzard think anybody would WANT to do that? Not only that, but due to the mechanics of the digsite spawns, it actually becomes
to get certain items past level 450.
The basic concepts behind archaeology are good. But the RNG factor in this is so massive, a lot of the time, it's just a frustrating waste, rather than the 'fun' profession that was meant to be used to take up our spare time.
Finally, I have Zin'Rokh!
433 Troll solves spread over two characters, (levelled my Pally 80-84.5 on digging alone).
Finally at 01:37 on Christmas Day (nice touch) it popped up in my Pally's journal, a "Skull Shaped Planter" preceded it, spent a further hour farming to get it solved (daren't log off in case it vanished from the journal as some have reported).
I wasn't at a troll digsite when I made the discovery, was just solving a couple artifacts before bed and there it was.
I'd love to say stick with it and you will be rewarded but as with all of these things it's possible to never see it (though pretty unlikely), there were times when I wanted to give up but I figured I'd keep at it until my Pally hit 85.
The removal of Vash'Jir digsites is a blessing, it might be small but IMO the Twilight Highlands digsites are easily cleared and don't hinder progress all that much so no need to worry about unlocking high end dig sites.
Very best of luck to everyone still looking for this baby, hope you get it without having to invest as much time as I did :)
According to a game master its possible to unlock the swort at clvl 80.
The gamemaster did not answer me if my chances increase at clvl 85 or 525 archeology as opossed to clvl 80 and 450 archaeology.
I get too much *!@#ing RNG from playing my god damn ret pally. This sword can kiss my ass i'll get the Hellscream's Reach Sword instead.
158 times solved after 450 skill, over 1670 fossils atm and yes I have the mount & pet, gl all
From what I am getting you have a chance to get it a little bit after getting 525 if you do not its usually after solve 140+ and if not then its just all bad.
302 troll solves
I have the every artifact from Night Elfs including the doll, everything from dwarfs including the staff & both the fossil items. I hit 525 on the 10th and have been doing archeology ever since.
Most of the time I just do archeology & raid I do not do heroics or pvp.
Still no sword.
Over 100 solves. Still no sword. I think i am going to start solving in my Unholy spec instead of my blood spec, superstitious maybe, but at this point I need something to keep me going. Good Luck (and that is exactly what you need) to everyone trying for this.
I've been farming this forever. Used over 1700 troll frags and 40ish troll tablets and still no luck. Now leveling my warrior while farming troll frag. Gonna save up 5-8k troll frags and turn it all in and test my luck out.
I have an idea, what if ilvl 359 rares won't show up to be solved if you have other rares already waiting to be solved? I just thought of this, so I am not going to solve any troll artifacts until I solve my two other rares. Any comments on this?
Colloquially known as Zin'rokh, Destroyer of Lives.
Just keep trying. I read somewhere that "The Undroppable Force" as i renamed it, has something like 0.4% to pops up. So no numbers can tell you precisely or just nearly when you're going to pop