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Outlaw Rogue Review - Battle for Azeroth Class Community Opinions

envoyé 2018-07-19 à 22:04 par Squishei

If this spec appeals to you after reading this article, check out our Battle for Azeroth Outlaw Rogue Guide.

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Wednesday

Thursday

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17: Assassination

18: Subtlety

19: Outlaw

20: Fury / Arms

21: Ret / Windwalker

22: Feral / Enhancement

23: Havoc

24: Survival

25: Beast Mastery / Marksmanship

26: Fire / Frost

27: Arcane

28: Boomkin / Elemental

29: Demonology

30: Destruction / Affliction

31: Shadow

1: Unholy / Frost

2: Holy Paladin

3: Disc / Holy

4: Restoration Druid

5: Restoration / Mistweaver

6: Blood

7: Brewmaster

8: Guardian / Protection Warrior

9: Vengeance

10: Protection Paladin

ravenholdt.netdiscord.gg/ravenholdttwitter.com/Ravenholdt

Fuu - Theorycrafter, guide writer and moderator in the Ravenholdt discord.

Loktark - Loktark is a prominent member and moderator in the Ravenholdt discord community. He is the current writer of the Ravenholdt Outlaw guide, having mained Outlaw for all of Legion. He has high hopes for his spec moving into Battle for Azeroth.

Mystler - Mystler is a Rogue Theorycrafter in the Ravenholdt community who also works on SimulationCraft, Hero Damage and more. While he spends time with theorycraft on all specs, his favorite spec and the one he usually plays is Subtlety. Follow him on Twitter, Twitch.

Paryah - Paryah runs the Ravenholdt website, is an admin on the Ravenholdt Discord, and is responsible for the weekly Fans of Knives rogue news blog. She plays all three specs, but is currently raiding on Subtlety. Follow her on Twitter.

Weak - wEak raids in Memento. He aids the rogue team with TC related stuff and works on the Ravenholdt spec guides. Follow him on Twitch.

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Commentaire de TheRedRogueHaving played Outlaw in all of its iterations since Legion Beta, the changes made, for the most part, have improved the spec. While buried treasure will quickly become a weak buff in roll the bones builds due to the flat rate of regen, for undergeared or haste-lacking rogues it does help improve the pace of the spec. From the mythic+ I've dabbled in to see how the scaling turned out, Outlaw is still holding up pretty nicely in the pre-patch. The new placement of marked for death as a level 45 talent was a welcome change, and Blade Rush is an awesome and much-needed talent for the Outlaw toolkit. Having a gap closer that gives energy and can do decent AoE damage with blade flurry active makes it very desirable, though the new Killing Spree is holding up very nicely as well, and is second to none for bursting down a pack of mobs. Dancing Steel, however, should have some sort of additional effect, even if minor, that gives some single target gain, as these other two abilities have single target capabilities.

The only cons that I can think of are the somewhat extensive cooldown to Ghostly Strike, which although is reduced by true bearing/restless blades, just feels like the % bonus should be slightly higher to warrant not being able to keep it active more consistently. Due to this, quick draw will easily pull ahead in overall damage gain. It would make sense, to me at least, that an active ability that requires some upkeep and attention, should offer larger DPS gain over a simple passive that doesn't influence your rotation or require any additional thought.

Overall though, Outlaw has handled the pre-patch pretty well I would say, and is looking promising as a mythic plus spec, though its single target is slightly lacking.Commentaire de irmosBadly outlaw was pretty nice at the start of Legion, but some other classes start cry for the 6 rolls...thats why outlaw gets 200% nerf on the bracers lego and 20% on the run through and it is the only class that gets so much nerf in 2 months...outlaw now i think is the only class atm that haves to choose between 2 pretty good talents on the 90 lvl and 100.... dancing steel is nothing...worst talent i ever see... even on draenor the BF was 2 charges but it was turn on and turn off...yes has a penalty for energy reg but still...Killing spree is a bad rework of the old ks...So sub can have his DfA as talent as it was to all Legion and he can crit for 30-35 million pre patch and is the only spec that can do so big numbers the other 2 specs can use it i think only as a pvp talent, that i havent try it yet i get bored with Sub spec and the OP burst cheat dmg..I am sure that Outlaw need a nice rework..as the most ppl say in all the legion expa and they want it for,Commentaire de BergelmirI've never played this game to be the best. I play to have fun, and outlaw used to be the most fun spec by far. Couldn't they have just let us keep it? :PCommentaire de JaiieHaving played Outlaw in all of its iterations since Legion Beta, the changes made, for the most part, have improved the spec. While buried treasure will quickly become a weak buff in roll the bones builds due to the flat rate of regen, for undergeared or haste-lacking rogues it does help improve the pace of the spec. From the mythic+ I've dabbled in to see how the scaling turned out, Outlaw is still holding up pretty nicely in the pre-patch. The new placement of marked for death as a level 45 talent was a welcome change, and Blade Rush is an awesome and much-needed talent for the Outlaw toolkit. Having a gap closer that gives energy and can do decent AoE damage with blade flurry active makes it very desirable, though the new Killing Spree is holding up very nicely as well, and is second to none for bursting down a pack of mobs. Dancing Steel, however, should have some sort of additional effect, even if minor, that gives some single target gain, as these other two abilities have single target capabilities.

The only cons that I can think of are the somewhat extensive cooldown to Ghostly Strike, which although is reduced by true bearing/restless blades, just feels like the % bonus should be slightly higher to warrant not being able to keep it active more consistently. Due to this, quick draw will easily pull ahead in overall damage gain. It would make sense, to me at least, that an active ability that requires some upkeep and attention, should offer larger DPS gain over a simple passive that doesn't influence your rotation or require any additional thought.

Overall though, Outlaw has handled the pre-patch pretty well I would say, and is looking promising as a mythic plus spec, though its single target is slightly lacking.painfuldoCommentaire de DrakenkingHaving played Outlaw in all of its iterations since Legion Beta, the changes made, for the most part, have improved the spec. While buried treasure will quickly become a weak buff in roll the bones builds due to the flat rate of regen, for undergeared or haste-lacking rogues it does help improve the pace of the spec. From the mythic+ I've dabbled in to see how the scaling turned out, Outlaw is still holding up pretty nicely in the pre-patch. The new placement of marked for death as a level 45 talent was a welcome change, and Blade Rush is an awesome and much-needed talent for the Outlaw toolkit. Having a gap closer that gives energy and can do decent AoE damage with blade flurry active makes it very desirable, though the new Killing Spree is holding up very nicely as well, and is second to none for bursting down a pack of mobs. Dancing Steel, however, should have some sort of additional effect, even if minor, that gives some single target gain, as these other two abilities have single target capabilities.

The only cons that I can think of are the somewhat extensive cooldown to Ghostly Strike, which although is reduced by true bearing/restless blades, just feels like the % bonus should be slightly higher to warrant not being able to keep it active more consistently. Due to this, quick draw will easily pull ahead in overall damage gain. It would make sense, to me at least, that an active ability that requires some upkeep and attention, should offer larger DPS gain over a simple passive that doesn't influence your rotation or require any additional thought.

Overall though, Outlaw has handled the pre-patch pretty well I would say, and is looking promising as a mythic plus spec, though its single target is slightly lacking.painfuldoCommentaire de JaiieExcept Blade Rush doesn't use Combo points at all? And on top of that, a properly used Greenskins rotation is far harder then keeping Ghostly strike up.If we're going to get talking about Blade Rush vs Killing Spree, how is letting go of control of your character for 2 seconds fun or engaging? Blade Rush is the highest simming talent in that Tier, restores energy, has no combo point requirements, and can be used when you're energy starved and acts as a charge. You couldn't have gotten any more wrong about the ability. Also if you're not spamming abilities, you aren't ramped up. You should be using Greenskins and Insignia on SIngle Target with Quick Draw, Alacrity, and Blade Rush. Reroll for Grand Melee/Ruthless Precision, or any 2 buffs.both agreeJust to tie up this information, you're also wrong about Ghostly strike not having been worth it, if that was the case, your gear wasn't good enough to push Ghostly strike ahead because the difference between those two talents was between 50-100k dps, and not once in my entire time playing Outlaw(Have played Combat since BC) did I miss Marked for Death, though thats going to be more personal opinion.Commentaire de TheRedRogueHaving played Outlaw in all of its iterations since Legion Beta, the changes made, for the most part, have improved the spec. While buried treasure will quickly become a weak buff in roll the bones builds due to the flat rate of regen, for undergeared or haste-lacking rogues it does help improve the pace of the spec. From the mythic+ I've dabbled in to see how the scaling turned out, Outlaw is still holding up pretty nicely in the pre-patch. The new placement of marked for death as a level 45 talent was a welcome change, and Blade Rush is an awesome and much-needed talent for the Outlaw toolkit. Having a gap closer that gives energy and can do decent AoE damage with blade flurry active makes it very desirable, though the new Killing Spree is holding up very nicely as well, and is second to none for bursting down a pack of mobs. Dancing Steel, however, should have some sort of additional effect, even if minor, that gives some single target gain, as these other two abilities have single target capabilities.

The only cons that I can think of are the somewhat extensive cooldown to Ghostly Strike, which although is reduced by true bearing/restless blades, just feels like the % bonus should be slightly higher to warrant not being able to keep it active more consistently. Due to this, quick draw will easily pull ahead in overall damage gain. It would make sense, to me at least, that an active ability that requires some upkeep and attention, should offer larger DPS gain over a simple passive that doesn't influence your rotation or require any additional thought.

Overall though, Outlaw has handled the pre-patch pretty well I would say, and is looking promising as a mythic plus spec, though its single target is slightly lacking.painfuldoCommentaire de Jaiieghostly strike was by and far a better talent and when running slice and dice it was practically mandatory. Commentaire de TheRedRogueghostly strike was by and far a better talent and when running slice and dice it was practically mandatory. Commentaire de JaiieIronically I was in the exact opposite position for most of antorus, as I had played RTB for the entire time of legion until the final tier. Due to how strong the pantheon procs were and how wel they scaled with attack speed, having ghostly strike is how I consistently got al my best numbers. I’m sure the 7.3.5 numbers are still active, so check out my warcraftlogs for Zeratüle of Tichondrius if you’re interested. Unfortunately my mythic parses are less than favorable compared to m heroic and normal, you can see pretty much the loadout I ran every fight for the end of antorus. I only wish I got a decently leveled auto attack ring at some point.Commentaire de CyberiumI prefer the old Killing Spree where you get to teleport around like a ninja. :(Commentaire de JaiieEdit: Yeah it unfortunately is a pretty large disparity in Pre-Patch(slice and dice with ghostly I mean), which is a shame as it is a build most people enjoyed and could make play more like Combat, which is ideal for a lot of folks.Commentaire de TheRedRogueIronically I was in the exact opposite position for most of antorus, as I had played RTB for the entire time of legion until the final tier. Due to how strong the pantheon procs were and how wel they scaled with attack speed, having ghostly strike is how I consistently got al my best numbers. I’m sure the 7.3.5 numbers are still active, so check out my warcraftlogs for Zeratüle of Tichondrius if you’re interested. Unfortunately my mythic parses are less than favorable compared to m heroic and normal, you can see pretty much the loadout I ran every fight for the end of antorus. I only wish I got a decently leveled auto attack ring at some point.Commentaire de JaiieAlso the convergence was a bit overrated honestly, though if it was generous it could be pretty powerful.

To really see how much DPS old slice and dice could do, you would have to add the pantheon proc strong to your simulations while wearing the pantheon trinket, naturally. It was pretty obscene. LolCommentaire de TheRedRogueI understand where you’re coming from, I think my biggest qualm with slice and dice was the fact it doesn’t have any complexity at all, so having the debuff application/monitoring on targets with ghostly strike gave it something more to do, especially if you were running the shoulders and ring, which basically eliminated between the eyes from your rotation if you weren’t running bracers, as it was a wasted chance for an extra roll the bones buff from the T21 bonus.Commentaire de JaiieI understand where you’re coming from, I think my biggest qualm with slice and dice was the fact it doesn’t have any complexity at all, so having the debuff application/monitoring on targets with ghostly strike gave it something more to do, especially if you were running the shoulders and ring, which basically eliminated between the eyes from your rotation if you weren’t running bracers, as it was a wasted chance for an extra roll the bones buff from the T21 bonus.Commentaire de TheRedRogue

I wouldn't mind some complexity with Slice and Dice, but not gratuitously so (just for the sake of it, without value). The extreme end of that scale (complexity) is RtB without the set bonuses. Roll... re-roll... re-roll... re-roll YAHTZEE (or at least a tolerable configuration). That was absurd.

You make an interesting argument (which I like, actually) about BtE vs Ghostly Strike. It substitutes one for the other. Though, one is a little more reactive (BtE) and the other is every time it is ready to roll off the target (GS). In the end, it isn't changing the number, just "when" it happens. Okay, I'll buy that.

It sounds like Convergence allowed for Ghostly Strike to work (in Antorus anyway, but not in M+) better than RtB. But, once we remove that crutch (Convergence), the spec has to stand on its own. Okay, now that Antorus is going to be no longer a thing, does the spec stand on its own as is?

That's the question we should be answering (and why I didn't answer or comment in the context of Antorus with my first comment which set off this rather long chain of replies). BfA is where the original focus of the original post, the comment I replied to, and the substance of my comments (I didn't call out Antorus because I was more in reference to scenarios that are roughly analog to BfA: M+, World, other raids, etc.)

If there were something interesting about Ghostly Strike (and potentially equal dps to the alternatives in the talent tier), I'd consider putting it back in rotation. Same with Slice and Dice (though, it may be more in parity once the tier bonuses go away and remove the insane game of chance that RtB is without the set bonuses).Commentaire de kodora1316I've never played this game to be the best. I play to have fun, and outlaw used to be the most fun spec by far. Couldn't they have just let us keep it? :PCommentaire de JaiieRight, got a little off track on that one. Regarding the future of outlaw and it’s current state in Pre-Patch,Ghostly Strike needs a buff or rework of some type to make it pertinent again, or at least to put it closer with the other level 15 talents.

Though this would probably not happen, a possible way that ghostly strike could be made an interesting part of the rotation would be if it instead was a finisher, that gave an increased damage bonus per combo point spent, but with a longer cooldown or a reduced duration. Just a thought.With how weapon damage will scale now, I think slice and dice will eventually find itself in a good place, though it will take a pretty big item level increase before it becomes a competitive alternative once again.waysCommentaire de TheRedRogue

That's still better than the old "Increased Insight" ramp-up to ramping up was. (Tedious, irritating... and that's being kind) I think they've left Outlaw mostly alone in so far as major changes for the BfA and pre-launch phases. That either means we are OK or... that we are due for a major revamp. I would prefer more the former than the latter unless it means moving Marked for Death to a useful spot.

Well, having done theorycrafting for WoW before (I wrote DrDamage for a couple expansions (MoP and WoD)), weapon damage is on a stat budget as much as the stats are (primary or secondary). They scale at the same rate because of the formula used for them. What you're really arguing is more definition (5-10 dps differential now vs 50000 dps later on when the difference is more noticeable but at the same percentage) will be possible due to the increase in item levels. That's fair, but not really going to make the deciding factor.

What does will be how our secondary stats are now affecting our damage in ways they didn't before. We were absolutely allergic to mastery most of the time in almost every expansion. Now, it does a surprisingly larger amount of damage (at least once we get rid of our Legion gear). It may not be 100% parity to versatility, crit, or haste, but it isn't a "junk" stat anymore. I was surprised to see it did a fairly large chunk of my damage around 118-120 in beta.

Unlike most specs, most of our damage (I can't think of any abilities outside of combo point spenders) is weapon damage derived. That's equipped weapon damage + AP converted to weapon damage for the non-finishers (unlike Dispatch/Run through/Eviscerate depending on the expansion). Everything has been a multiple of weapon damage in the past except for a small number of abilities. Even assassination's bleeds/poisons were AP derived (same for subtlety's dots). I don't see this really affecting us that much because the baseline for our abilities hasn't really changed in the ways (i.e. mechanics) the stats affect us - in so much as in the intensity (i.e. coefficients).

What will really make or break it for us will be the Azerite traits. Just like legendaries, artifact traits, and trinket procs did (convergence as well in Antorus), it has the capacity to completely alter our playstyle and scaling. I don't think the first tier of traits will be game changing to a great degree. But, as with anything else they've rolled out, it will probably become a greater and greater influence as we go from tier to tier in raids.

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