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Durendil Hunter Mythic Helya (ToV) Solo and Extreme Soloing Guide

envoyé 2018-11-13 à 17:28 par perculia

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Commentaire de Nezlly He's a clicker.... Commentaire de dustdog Wowee Commentaire de tarsyo I just came to say the same :P Commentaire de Niculove Is this a !@#$ing joke? Clicker? It's painful to watch.

Edit: I've received a warning for this comment and I just said my opinion, that it's painful to watch. Commentaire de GrimmHooke Oh man, nice work! I've been trying to solo some of the mythic Legion bosses, but they can still be a real challenge. Commentaire de sortajan Is this a !@#$ing joke? Clicker? It's painful to watch.\r
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I don't see the problem with play style so long as the performance is good. Commentaire de Peredhil Is this a !@#$ing joke? Clicker? It's painful to watch.\r
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I don't see the problem with play style so long as the performance is good.\r
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Now imagine what would be able to do if he would keybind :D. Is perfectly possible to do a stadium lap jumping on one foot, but using both feet has certain advantages. Commentaire de imemerson The jealousy is real y'all. All these players that keybind but still can't play as well as clickers...nothing to do but cry and make excuses. They'll default to the "but he's a clicker, so it's not a "real" achievement" or "imagine what he could do if he didn't click" lines to cover their own ineptitude. Instead of celebrating accomplishments, they'll make excuses. But the plain, simple truth is that this clicker is better than all of them put together will ever be as keybinders. As a player that enjoys soloing old content before it's faceroll and keybinds but still recognizes he'll never be at this level, these players give us something to aspire to and teach the player base how to develop strategies, be creative with boss or class mechanics, and just get better at the game. Ignore these fools and keep pushing those limits Durendil. Jealousy and excuses will never speak louder than results. Commentaire de eppon As a hunter player who still has difficulties with more than a handful of keybinds, this is truly inspiring to me. Keep it up you brilliant, crazy person. Commentaire de Pakoun The jealousy is real y'all. All these players that keybind but still can't play as well as clickers...nothing to do but cry and make excuses. They'll default to the "but he's a clicker, so it's not a "real" achievement" or "imagine what he could do if he didn't click" lines to cover their own ineptitude. Instead of celebrating accomplishments, they'll make excuses. But the plain, simple truth is that this clicker is better than all of them put together will ever be as keybinders. As a player that enjoys soloing old content before it's faceroll and keybinds but still recognizes he'll never be at this level, these players give us something to aspire to and teach the player base how to develop strategies, be creative with boss or class mechanics, and just get better at the game. Ignore these fools and keep pushing those limits Durendil. Jealousy and excuses will never speak louder than results.

LOL, there's no jealousy. It's just a showcase how boring and stupid is soloing old content (especially as BM hunter or tank). And making it "big thing" like this? I would be ashamed to even publish this like real achievement..
Also clicker can never react as good as keybinder, so he had hours of smashing the head against the wall until he learned the whole fight step by step. That's a fact. You can see that it's not doing any dmg to him (except purple orb explosions in last phase) so there is nothing hard to play.
I respect Mione and Rextroy for soloing current contents(or old content when it's real edge, not 2 years after), but this is just a joke and if the guy has nothing better to do than waiting until something old is soloable to "be first", I pity him. Commentaire de Durendillehunt As a hunter player who still has difficulties with more than a handful of keybinds, this is truly inspiring to me. Keep it up you brilliant, crazy person.\r
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Wel, I made a long discution in my Argus 3-man video if you want all my thoughts about clicking, but the short version is you can manage a hunter (I don't play other classes) with mostly clicking (even in mythic raids) as long as said clicking does not hold you back. Most arguments against clicking are actually pretty valid, so be sure to check them out, although it seems to have reached dogmatic levels for some - there are other ways to avoid said caveats. The common caveats you need to avoid are:\r
- first, losing time. For GCD spells, you need to make sure that you don't delay - move mouse fact enough or, for spells off GCD, use a keybind. To give an idea, my main keybinds are interrupt, disengage, spirit mend, turtle, turtle dispel, frost trap, binding shot and a targeting macro. For less-used abilities, I sometimes add one for a specific boss. You can also use macros if you need to make several actions at once - use AotW + Trinket, or for example on Zul Mythic I have a macro to switch to Bloodhexer and another to switch back to Zul since there are so many adds that tab targeting is a bad idea.\r
But more importantly, also check what difficulty you're in - I tend to optimize for high M+\/Mythic raids and soloing (and also by principle), but in a less serious setting, like heroic, spending 2 second dropping a frost trap will not impact your dps a lot - and unless your guild is struggling with dps, strat\/execution is usually the most important factor in killing the boss.\r
- spending too much time looking at your action bars. Honestly, it's about practice. You shouldn't lose sight of events on screen because you're watching action bars, but that's up to you.\r
- prediction is key. I've always believed that dps came from the rotation but mainly strategy and performance when bosses aren't target dummies. Most people talk about "reaction time" for clicking, but honestly unless you're doing pvp a boss shouldn't ever take you by surprise. Just plan ahead.\r
- last argument, "you would do better if you switch to keybind". If you're bad at keybinds and keybinding, it wont magically make you good, although I would suggest taking time to train, see if it works. But in the end, whatever you do, it's about doing it well.\r
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Finally, don't worry too much about it. Despite being very vocal, the keybinding purists aren't representative of the community. In casual settings, people usually don't care. And in guilds, it's usually performance that matters. When I joined my first mythic guild, I had the raid leader ask for a discussion that went "I'l surprised to see you click, especially since your performance is decent", so I explained how I managed\/my playstyle, followed by him asking me "I noticed you have some keybinds, list them to me" (note: very few people who complain about clicking ever actually watched more than superficially my playstyle) and "but don't you lose visibility?", to which I answered why it didn't affect my performance. And that was it - in short, actions speak louder than words, and a couple months in nobody in the group cared anymore - they kept their remarks for the guy that died first.\r
Finally remember that what matters is killing the boss. Example: on Fetid Mythic, the rankings of the 3 BM hunters on the boss (which need to die before a set timer) in my guild are the opposite of their ranking on the adds (that need to die asap) - so which one is better? Here again, any argument that picks example while remaining grossly superficial is worthless. But on your end, if you want to click, never tell yourself "I can't do that because I click, it's not important" - find a way to do that. It just doesn't need to be overhauling your playstyle, and you know best what works for you. Commentaire de Leadre The jealousy is real y'all. All these players that keybind but still can't play as well as clickers...nothing to do but cry and make excuses. They'll default to the "but he's a clicker, so it's not a "real" achievement" or "imagine what he could do if he didn't click" lines to cover their own ineptitude. Instead of celebrating accomplishments, they'll make excuses. But the plain, simple truth is that this clicker is better than all of them put together will ever be as keybinders. As a player that enjoys soloing old content before it's faceroll and keybinds but still recognizes he'll never be at this level, these players give us something to aspire to and teach the player base how to develop strategies, be creative with boss or class mechanics, and just get better at the game. Ignore these fools and keep pushing those limits Durendil. Jealousy and excuses will never speak louder than results.\r
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Wow, dahack is wrong with you? Someone states that he finds clicking stupid and you read that much into it? \r
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And, honestly, clicking will usually be inferior to binding based on the fact that you usually have a lot of abilities to manage within a short period of time and hardly anyone can move their mouse fast and precise enough to achieve as good of a management as if they were binding, but hey - however you wanna play. If clicking is for you then, by all means, go for it.\r
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Concerning the soloing I must say... meh. It\u00b4s fine I guess, although "guys, I killed the endboss of the second raid of the last expansion alone!" does not really have that great of a ring to it for me. But, again, if that is what you want to aim for and if you actually manage to do it, good on ya. Commentaire de Peredhil The jealousy is real y'all. All these players that keybind but still can't play as well as clickers...nothing to do but cry and make excuses. They'll default to the "but he's a clicker, so it's not a "real" achievement" or "imagine what he could do if he didn't click" lines to cover their own ineptitude. Instead of celebrating accomplishments, they'll make excuses. But the plain, simple truth is that this clicker is better than all of them put together will ever be as keybinders. As a player that enjoys soloing old content before it's faceroll and keybinds but still recognizes he'll never be at this level, these players give us something to aspire to and teach the player base how to develop strategies, be creative with boss or class mechanics, and just get better at the game. Ignore these fools and keep pushing those limits Durendil. Jealousy and excuses will never speak louder than results.\r
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Speak for yourself. From Helya I got all 4 armor types from Chosen and then RL several pugs to get the achievement just because I wanted to help. So I kinda know the fight. Ineptitude? Yeah - I didn't cleared Uldir mythic yet- guess depends who is measuring. On the same progression level as the featured hunter though. So he's not Method quality- to admire his skill and learn.\r
Keybinding IS objectively better than clicking- being reaction time or eye movement. I evolved from clicker so I know both sides of the coin. So it was a simple observation that he is hindering his playstyle. Soloing Helya 10 levels after was current content is nice -even more when clicking- but hardly something to be jealous of. As someone mentioned- he's neither Rextroy nor Mione.\r
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And as a personal advice: blindly praising while lashing at justified criticism won't increase your personal skill. I would work on getting that curve for current content if I were you instead. Commentaire de Peredhil but the short version is you can manage a hunter (I don't play other classes) with mostly clicking (even in mythic raids) as long as said clicking does not hold you back. \r
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Probably. I didn't tried, switched to keybinding before I started to raid as hunter. I can tell you for sure that tanking + clicking is a bad combo though. So if someone plan to extend the classes\/ roles played, this may not apply.\r
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Despite being very vocal, the keybinding purists aren't representative of the community. In casual settings, people usually don't care. And in guilds, it's usually performance that matters.\r
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Most of "purists" speak for keybinding because -regardless what few people can manage with clicking- is simply the most effective way. From 100 ppl clicking and then changing to keybiding I'm willing to bet 90+ will improve after the muscle memory has fully taken over. \r
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Example: on Fetid Mythic, the rankings of the 3 BM hunters on the boss (which need to die before a set timer) in my guild are the opposite of their ranking on the adds (that need to die asap) - so which one is better? \r
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This is not even a question as the burst CD are saved for adds anyways and kill >>>parse. Here's another example: if you want to trap a caster add on Zek'voz while positioning yourself to bait the small ones and being busy aoe bursting them - will you achieve these faster while clicking or keybinding? Considering that if you place your trap in advance can slightly miss the caster...\r
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In the end my example stands - you can run laps jumping on one foot, while feeling happy and enjoying yourself. Just don't advocate it as the better method and claim that people noticing that using the second foot improved the performance for most are purists. I was a clicker, I know how it feels, was looking for way to improve my gameplay, now I rather uninstall the game than returning to that. \r
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And to end in a more positive note : good luck on Zul and beyond ;). Commentaire de kroghelf Why is this post even a thing? I could go solo half the bosses he couldn't even beat on mythic, with out bis 3rd row traits. Commentaire de Pengalor Why is this post even a thing? I could go solo half the bosses he couldn't even beat on mythic, with out bis 3rd row traits.\r
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Then let's see it. Put up or shut up. Commentaire de BigRed Why is this post even a thing? I could go solo half the bosses he couldn't even beat on mythic, with out bis 3rd row traits.\r
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Then let's see it. Put up or shut up.\r
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He won't :) Anyone who's ever tried to duplicate Durendil's or Shoot's work even with strategies completely laid out knows how difficult this stuff is, so someone spouting off like this obviously's never done it.\r
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But yeah, regarding the clicking - this was actually what amazed me when I first watched his videos because the community had beaten it into me that key binding was superior. If the community is right, then his feats are actually even more impressive (and notably, Shoot, who keybinds much more doesn't seem to be able to do things at lower ilvls).\r
If the community is wrong, as Durendil argues rather convincingly in this thread, than that's an interesing find by itself.\r
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And it's just downright funny when complainers hype Mione and Rextroy (whose work is remarkable, no doubt) for doing current content, i.e. players doing this with two classes that have a lot more damage mitigation and self-heal than any hunter spec does. Commentaire de Peredhil \r
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But yeah, regarding the clicking - this was actually what amazed me when I first watched his videos because the community had beaten it into me that key binding was superior. If the community is right, then his feats are actually even more impressive (and notably, Shoot, who keybinds much more doesn't seem to be able to do things at lower ilvls).\r
If the community is wrong, as Durendil argues rather convincingly in this thread, than that's an interesing find by itself.\r
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People that still advocate clicking are the ones amazing tbf. I don't say look at top raiding guilds. If you mentioned community opinion on topic check -as example- Preach's ( a much better raider than Durendil) videos on keybinding, and the argumentation why is the most effective way. Durendil's argumentation is = "it works for me for my class in certain content". He also said "Most arguments against clicking are actually pretty valid, so be sure to check them out". But whatever floats your boat, in the end. Commentaire de mybelovedchaos Oh man, nice work! I've been trying to solo some of the mythic Legion bosses, but they can still be a real challenge.\r
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^ This ^ Commentaire de Durendillehunt \r
If the community is wrong, as Durendil argues rather convincingly in this thread, than that's an interesing find by itself.\r
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I think the message I'm trying to convey is "if it works for you it's fine, take time to think about it and experiment but in the end choose your own playstyle as long as it's an informed decision". And also, depending on your aim what matters is if it's "good enough". Basically I'm not taking a stand against people keybinding if it's better for them, but the idea that "there is only one true way" - also known as the meta. Anyone who's watched the MDIs or competitive Heroes of the Storm (MOBA) can say that some rules are mostly true but if you put in the effort you don't have to follow them.\r
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To translate the issue, everyone knows that Beast Mastery is objectively better than Marksmanship in Uldir. You won't find MM hunters in world first kills. But that doesn't change the fact that good MM hunters can progress in Uldir, and if a MM hunter plays well enough he can probably be better than a lot of BM hunters. In other words, if you are MM and want to play MM then do play MM to the best of your ability. But you do not "have" to switch to BM. Same with Blood DKs in Mythic+ - I'd like to ask Shakib how often people tell him he should play DK because it's objectively better.\r
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But I doubt I can explain it better than Jodtb (from wowhead interview ealier this week):\r
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The M+ meta is a lot like BMI. You can look at how classes and specs are performing in the community at large and draw some important and accurate conclusions about classes, but when you look at the individual players on those classes you will find some extreme outliers. Gingi is going to play his hunter and get world firsts no matter what. Drjay didn\u2019t care what the community thought about mage, he combusted his way to BlizzCon. Shakib didn\u2019t need group leech to hold the top NA tank spot for most of Legion. There are certain players in the M+ game that know their class so well and spend so much time practicing that the meta doesn\u2019t really apply to them, and you\u2019ll often find those players working their way up the leaderboard at all costs.\r
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So when those players end up at the top of the leaderboard, the community tends to step back and go, \u201cHmm, maybe that class is actually sneaky good and we just missed something.\u201d In reality, though, it\u2019s often just the player doing well in spite of their class. If you see representation for a class is super low across the board and then one guy starts cranking out +19s and +20s with it, it\u2019s probably just that guy. Unless that guy figured out some crazy new build or synergy with another player on his team, he\u2019s probably just accepting his spec\u2019s limitations and figuring out how to play around them.\r
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So don't worry, I'll never try to insist that clicking is better than keybinding, and that's not how you should interpret it. However, I will insist that I don't care: I'll just keep killing bosses, in raids and in solo. And I won't judge what or how you play, I'll just look at the results.

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Durendil Hunter Mythic Helya (ToV) Solo and Extreme Soloing Guide

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